Balancing Slark (and Airshots)

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by taQtaQ, Jun 22, 2016.

  1. taQtaQ New Member

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    Slark has been banned from EU games for a while now, because of how easy this hero is to score with. Mostly this is due to the huge mobility advantage Backflip has. I don't think reducing the height of Backflip by 100 is much of a nerf, because how I see it, the things that make Backflip a BS airshot are:
    1) Airshot = Longer shot: The ball will reach the goal if the ball is shot from mid line.
    2) Manuverarable in air: You can shoot in any direction while in air
    3) Choice to shoot: You can choose to shoot in air or wait for the goalie to jump and shoot under the goalie once you have landed.
    4) Dash: You get a short speed burst in a direction and can jump over ppl. Goalie jump in comparison is straight upwards.

    I have a few suggestions to limit the options mentioned above, without turning backflip to a whole another ability:
    A) Backflip automatically shoots the ball at it's peak. No manual shooting.
    - Removes problem #3 and makes it easier for goalie to time the jump
    B) Backflip is actually a backflip and Slark jumps backwards (or straight up(or random direction(jk))) instead of forwards.
    - Makes #1 and #4 harder to accomplish
    C) Slark can't turn/lower turnrate while using Backflip.
    - Solves #2, but I don't like the idea too much myself because this should then affect all airshots and all heroes, not just Backflip
    D) Make shots in air weaker(slower) than shots on ground.
    - If I'm not completely wrong, there is less friction in the air so airbourne balls travel further than ground balls, if same amount of force is applied. So, I was thinking if it would be possible to decrease the strenght of the kick itself, if the hero is in air, to make air balls slower but have roughly the same (or a bit longer) travel distance as a ground kick. This would of course affect all heroes with a launchpad abilities. And along with C it's not a simple quick fix as A and B are.

    Also, Slark has better sprint (same stats +invis) compared to other heroes so you can afford to be a bit rough with Backflip.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2016
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  2. K1ngfisher QOP spammer SEA Chief Wiki Editor Banjoballer

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    In strikers, slark is actually quite weaker compared to banjo slark. This is due to changed physics from strikers to banjo

    The current change is only a small time change to make slark a bit weaker than he is right now. Dayne would like to change how air shots work in order to nerf slark. However the crash bug is currently taking priority.

    PS. If you were to see the wc3 banjo equivalent of slark (ninja) he actually does a backflip forwards
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2016
  3. taQtaQ New Member

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    Just throwing out few ideas I had. Fixing the crash bug is indeed more important atm
     
  4. Dayne Awful Player, Worse Developer Staff Member Banjoballer Wiki Editor Club Cx

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    Yeah, tbh I was going to hit him hard with other balance things this version, but wanted to get bugfixes out and didn't want to disrupt the game too drastically before ozils tournament two weeks from now.

    The 100 decrease is so that a goalie sitting at the back of the goal can save a jumpshot without jumping. That's the standard I usually use for Slark shots as it opens more potential to saves.

    I'll be heavily changing physics soon to fix aerial shots in general (such as ball collection hitbox being cylindrical instead of spherical based at the feet), but I'll also keep in mind some of these suggestions.
     
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  5. Biz Top 5 Banjoballer Club Cx

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    This is the issue. As Kingfisher stated the physics are all screwed up while Dayne is re-writing the stuff because I assume the strikers code was either non-variable (making things hard to change) or just messy and not in his style. I've been saying for awhile Slark is not the problem, the moon-gravity applied to arial shots is the problem. People are already figuring this out by using slam or techies. It reminds me of the Banjo patch where whoever could fire more successful slam-shots would eventually win.

    If you were to watch videos from Banjo (like King linked) or the ones from Strikers (which closely mirrored banjo) you'd see any arial shot would travel about the same distance as a regular shot, bouncing once then rolling to a stop. These are things you don't currently see in D2B, where shots seem to glide along their plane of height before abruptly stopping.
    Someone mentioned this the other day and I kinda wanted to touch on it separately.
    I personally believe the goalie jump ability should be removed or put on a long (30s+) timer. It was never designed to be a bonus ability or stop jump-shots. It was created as a sort of workaround due to some combination abilities in banjo causing shots to travel in-air over the width of the goal, mechanics that don't presently exist in D2B. I feel the inclusion of the ability currently only serves to make everyone who plays goalie much worse (spoiler).

    Logic alone would tell the average person that when an offensive player jumps (or is otherwise in the air) you should also.. jump; given the option. However this is the absolute worst thing for you to do. Jumping in reaction to an opposing player being airborne means that offensive player will land before you do. You are now in mid-air, unable to move, and your Q ability is probably rendered ineffective because it is likely some sort of dash.

    The offensive player is given an open net, they can shoot right past or even under you and you just gave them a goal thinking jump+jump=save.

    Goalie jump is designed to be used when the ball is airborne and you are already properly positioned to make the save. At this point jumping while the ball is on a predetermined path will result in a save that would otherwise pass over your head should you be unable to retreat further into the goal.

    From what I've see the current iteration of the ability is more often abused for attempted trick-passes or super dashes than is properly used in goalie play. So it should be limited to rare use if not disabled.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
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  6. Dayne Awful Player, Worse Developer Staff Member Banjoballer Wiki Editor Club Cx

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    That WC3 Banjoball statement is completely false for multiple reasons.

    A) You can score from your side of the field with ninja in WC3 Banjoball.
    B) Air has like close to 0 friction in WC3 Banjoball.
    C) The ball bounces around 4 times from a Ninja's backflip.
    D) Strikers' physics hardly mirrored Banjo's physics.

    A cooldown won't prevent people from trick shotting or dashing for the increased distance. I'll code in anti-trick shot code for it sometime later, but I'm not giving it a cooldown longer than 2 seconds.
     
  7. Biz Top 5 Banjoballer Club Cx

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    A. I never said you couldn't? That's an odd first reason to list.
    B. I never said anything about that either, nor would I know anything about it to speak of. An equally odd secondary reason.
    C. It bounces but a singular time where-in it would go above another player or be defined in the air/aerial (explicitly what I said) -- this portion of the shot is the same distance as a default kick as stated, I tested this. Any consecutive bounces can be deemed aesthetic at best; the same as the ball rolling on the ground.
    D. I suppose "more closely mirrored banjo" would have been less speculative. However I purposefully referenced the topic of aerial shots (notably back-flip) for my comparison. And they look pretty similar to me.

    Mirrored situations (East goal, Off post, Sorceress pull, I was opposing Ninja :d):
    Strikers Sample
    Banjo Sample

    Just my personal beliefs in reference to goalie jump hindering people more than not by presenting the option of a bonus ability on a 2 second cool down. But I suppose everyone can learn this the hard way.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
  8. Dayne Awful Player, Worse Developer Staff Member Banjoballer Wiki Editor Club Cx

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    Oh. Okay I overreacted thar. I see what you're saying now and I agree with it. The aerial issue has more to do with elasticity of bounces and low gravity than much else.
     

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