[Discussion] What's the most important role?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Tenkz, Jul 25, 2016.

?

Which is the most important role to have a skilled player on? Please discuss in thread as well!

  1. Mobility

    60.0%
  2. Goalkeeper

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Offense

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Defense

    40.0%
  1. Tenkz #1 NS Worldwide Club Cx

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    Preface
    Your teammates are equally competent at each role, and your skill levels are very defined. Where do you put your best player? Your worst?

    Question
    Which role requires the most skill? They're all impactful, but which ones can be more easily played by lesser skilled players? Why do you think so?

    Roles :
    Mobility
    Goalkeeper

    Offense
    Defense
     
  2. TrencH Active Member Banjoballer

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    Best goes on defence, worst goes on offence
     
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  3. L1ghtniNG Gnome Banjoballer Zealot Hockey Wiki Editor Club Cx

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    Defense>Mobility>Offense>Goalie
     
  4. Gray Member Banjoballer Zealot Hockey Club 50 Shades of Gray

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    ^
     
  5. Dayne Awful Player, Worse Developer Staff Member Banjoballer Wiki Editor Club Cx

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    I think you're undervaluing a good goalkeeper :/
     
  6. K1ngfisher QOP spammer SEA Chief Wiki Editor Banjoballer

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    Rather than undervaluing, it's more like GK requires a different skillset the way it's being played right now. Unless ofcourse it's an aggressive gk, blocking the dribble.

    I would say Mobility>Defense>Offense and have GK as a separate class with its own parameters. As for why mobility greater than defense, it doesnt matter how good the defense is if the ball can never get upfield.
     
  7. Dayne Awful Player, Worse Developer Staff Member Banjoballer Wiki Editor Club Cx

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    Well the idea is that it's easier to have a ball carrying monkey than a good defender. Defense is a hard and often undervalued role. A good defender can make any average goalkeeper look good, while also bolstering the offense.
     
  8. K1ngfisher QOP spammer SEA Chief Wiki Editor Banjoballer

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    A ball carrying monkey loses the ball faster compared to a skilled dribbler. If the mobility can't get past the enemy defender either through dribbling or passing say goodbye to any chances of having any nice attempts on goal.
     
  9. Dayne Awful Player, Worse Developer Staff Member Banjoballer Wiki Editor Club Cx

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    I think if the second best player on your team can't dribble, you've got bigger problems than just having no nice attempts on goal anyways.
     
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  10. Biz Top 5 Banjoballer Club Cx

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    Defense and Mobility are fairly even (because possession is life), and I'd say to put your best player on their best hero between those two.
    I'd go further to say I think being impactful both ways as a Defender is harder than Mobility since you have to position properly on both sides of the ball. You also need a higher level of passing since all your plays will be through the enemy team, where-as the Mobility player ideally receives or sprints past the enemy team. And turning the ball over/making a mistake as a defender will result in a instant shot on goal, where-as the mobility would have a defender trailing them to recover.
    However having a top level mobility player possessing these attributes can reduce a defender to only having to play one-way as was the norm in most banjoball settings. Obviously both would be ideal though (as seen with clan rosters, plugging X goalie or Y ninja).

    Both players will handle the bulk of dribbling and passing, and will tend to pass each-other quite a lot in an effective offensive scheme or while trying to get downfield so I'd lean towards putting your two best players on these heroes unless you have a scoring/goalie specialist.
    A great defender can make up for a shitty goalie or a weaker mobility player, while a great mobility player can make up for a weaker defender or a shitty scorer (whereas a goalie can't necessarily make up for 1vX situations; and a scorer can't get themselves possession). It's all about balance in a sense between giving your team more time to score, and scoring as fast as you can.

    This mentality is applied mostly to banjo, where you can have people playing mind-numbing heroes like BH or Ninja/Launchpad every game where they never have to touch the ball and can just use their abilities.

    -----
    In d2b I think it is a bit different. Currently with how weak goalie is and how few and far between intelligent defenders are (short of picking Lina) I'd have my best player solo anti-mage or nightstalker (as I have been readily attempting) and just hold the ball the whole game until you can score or assist, since it's more than likely you'll win based on whoever gets the first 15-20 shots on goal.

    tl;dr Defense = Mobility > Offense => Goalie

    TIL why trench mains offense.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
  11. Mets Administrator Staff Member Banjoballer Zealot Hockey

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    In WC3, the most important position is mobility because it has the highest skill cap and can make up for deficiencies at all the other positions. A team with 3 mediocre players and a great DH will probably beat a team with 3 great players and a mediocre DH most of the time. DH/Angel is as important to its team's offense/defense as the forward and 3rd man. For offense/defense I'd usually just put the players wherever they felt most comfortable, then the weakest player at goalie.

    Forwards are being very underrated and overlooked, btw. Good forwards always contribute significantly on defense (Retro, Riki, Sir, PROMASTER all play great help defense.) I would say that a good forward usually contributes more on defense than a good 3rd man contributes on offense.

    List of league championship teams' best player(s) positions:
    Season I: Mets (Shaman offense/defense)
    Season II: Cell (Tree offense)
    Season III: Mets (DH mobility)
    Season IV: Sir & Jage (Tree offense and BH Goalie)
    Season V: Mets & Cell (Ninja offense and DH mobility)
    Season VI: Mets (DH mobility)
    Season VII: Mets (DH mobility)
    Season VIII: Mets (DH mobility)
    Season IX: Sleek & Tenkz (DH mobility and Blink defense)

    So, I would say a good forward can carry his team just as well, if not more, than a 3rd man.

    If you look at the teams in general from all the seasons, nearly every team with a mediocre DH sucks. There are more teams who were successful with a mediocre defender or forward. Interestingly, I would say no team has ever won a championship without a solid goalie. The worst goalie to win a season was probably Pugman, the worst DH to win was probably Iam)Orc, the worst 3rd man was either BDX or Spark, and the worst forward was probably Degradation.

    I would rank it as Mobility>Offense=Defense>Goalie

    I have no idea about Dota 2 though because AM is so much easier to play (you can crash off the walls and turn without losing momentum, plus there's less defense in general.)
     
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