Ideas What Needs To Happen - The Quest for Balance

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Tenkz, Jul 14, 2016.

?

Yay?

  1. Yay

    25.0%
  2. Nay

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. some are spot on, others are not

    75.0%
  1. Tenkz #1 NS Worldwide Club Cx

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2015
    Messages:
    77
    Ratings:
    +48 / 20 / -13
    General :
    -Ball Speed Changed : The ball needs to move slower initially, but lose less speed. Currently it starts out insanely fast and then drops to 0 speed quickly, which allows for fair distance passing but also ridiculously fast shots. (Affects NS kick as well)

    Lina :
    -Currently Lina can just press Q and pretty much get the ball every time, and the cooldown is really flexible as well. Honestly, the hero might be a good goalie, who knows. Lina needs to have a short channel time on her Pull, as well as a reduction in the acceleration. Currently she can stay close to the ballholder, then press Q whenever necessary and force a turnover. Lina is currently too STRONG.

    Ogre Magi :
    -The slamshot offered by Ogre Smash essentially cannot be saved. It's incredibly fast and potent, as well as being fairly easy to pull off. Ogre Smash needs to have less force applied to the ball, even if it's only the ball and its force to heroes is not changed. Ogre Magi is currently SLIGHTLY TOO STRONG.

    Invoker :
    -Currently Invoker has one of the best defensive, as well as goaltender abilities. Powerdash allows for quick movement in any direction, regardless of facing angle. Even more impressive is its short 20 second cooldown, one of the shortest in the game. On top of that, Invoker has powershot to boot. Reduce Powerdash's distance by 50% and take off 4 seconds from the cooldown. It needs to be different from Tackle, not more optimal. Make it a shorter but more easily used Tackle that can be used more often. Invoker is currently BALANCED but overshadows Bloodseeker.

    Anti-Mage :
    -AM is the go-to option for mobility and handling. Is this a problem? Not really, the hero isn't necessarily too powerful. It's decent at everything, as a mobility hero should be. However, the problem lies in the fact that there are no other heroes which can contest its mobility. We need more mobility heroes. Anti-Mage is currently BALANCED.

    Night Stalker :
    -Your mobility-offense hybrid. This hero was previously a powerhouse in the original Banjoball, and some of its power has carried over. NS shots are mostly unsavable when taken relatively close to the net. Its mobility is also quite powerful. Reduce the power on its shots (mainly readjusting the speed/friction factors), and it'll be more easily dealt with. Night Stalker is currently SLIGHTLY TOO STRONG.

    Enigma :
    -BH doesn't really serve a purpose currently. The main thing I've noticed in the one game that I've seen it is that it takes entirely too long to reach a decent amount of force. Increase starting force by 50%, decrease growth time by 25%. Enigma is currently UNDERPOWERED.

    Queen of Pain :
    -QoP serves both defensive and offensive roles, as well as being capable of being a solid goalkeeper. Frankly I don't see anything wrong with the way it works, and it certainly isn't too powerful. Feels like a perfect hero which is strong in the right hands. Queen of Pain is currently BALANCED.

    Slark :
    -Slark, the classic ninja, has previously created trouble supposedly, having been banned from a league. However, it doesn't seem entirely too powerful anymore. Most of the problem lies in how kick speed works and how hard it is to see the ball when it's airborne. These changes will come eventually so for now.. Slark is currently BALANCED.

    Storm Spirit :
    -Supposedly this guy used to be the best hero. His sprint doesn't seem too powerful anymore, and I like the mana recovery on curveshot idea. Sometimes it seems like the mana recovery doesn't proc though, so that's a bit problematic. Seems fine to me. Storm Spirit is currently BALANCED.

    Techies :
    -A ranged Slam? Techies are currently played very rarely, but I think they're still powerful in their own right. I'm not sure what the current cooldown is, but maybe chopping off 2 seconds would help it see play more often. Techies are currently BALANCED.

    Earthshaker :
    -Outside of a few bugs which cause Slam to do LITERALLY nothing, ES feels really strong and certainly not lacking. This is balanced through a considerably long cooldown, therefore making the hero seemingly balanced in its role of offense. I don't think a slight reduction in Slam force would hurt, but it's also not necessary right now. Earthshaker is currently BALANCED.

    Bloodseeker :
    -Bloodseeker used to be a top hero and THE goaltending hero in Banjoball. However, it seems to carry out its Tackle incredibly slowly now, and doesn't really have a short cooldown to compare with Invoker or Lina. Either increasing the speed of Tackle or decreasing the cooldown should help it see play more often. Bloodseeker is currently SLIGHTLY UNDERPOWERED.

    Weaver :
    -Great hero for transitions. Also could possibly see play as a goalie? Who knows! However, there is one thing keeping it down: the indicator. Fix the indicator, and we'll see if anything else really needs to be done. Otherwise, I think it serves its role as a niche hero. Weaver is currently SLIGHTLY UNDERPOWERED.

    Pudge :
    -The hitbox for Hook seems really difficult to hit on the ball, and I think the cooldown could stand to be reduced to 24. Pudge is currently SLIGHTLY UNDERPOWERED.

    Puck :
    -I've literally never seen this hero used since Dota Strikers. Not once. However, I do think it has potential and buffing it would make it entirely too strong in the right hands. Give the projectile a little more collision radius and things should be fine in the end. Puck is currently SLIGHTLY UNDERPOWERED.

    There you go, next patch's changelog in advance.
     
  2. Dayne Awful Player, Worse Developer Staff Member Banjoballer Wiki Editor Club Cx

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2015
    Messages:
    410
    Ratings:
    +170 / 32 / -21
    Wow this is deja vu to last year.

    I'll probably be nerfing Lina's cooldown a lot, but a decreased acceleration will do the opposite of what you assume. It's easier to steal the ball, IMO, with a lower pull force than a higher one.

    Smash shots aren't strong given any level of defence in the way of the Ogre, as far as I can tell.

    I'd be down to try out the Powerdash nerfs.

    NS's shot is a tricky situation. I've been aware of his easy time in front of the goal, but fine tuning him while a lot of physics is still up to be changed is somewhat a waste given that he's not blaringly overpowered at the moment.

    Agreed with thoughts on BH. I'm gonna be buffing BH's starting forces in coming versions.

    ES bugfix coming when I've got the chance.

    I'll buff Bloodseeker and Pudge. Puck gets play by about the same % of players as in wc3, and by roughly the same types of players. I'll see what I can do to buff Swap though.
     
  3. K1ngfisher QOP spammer SEA Chief Wiki Editor Banjoballer

    Country:
    Maldives
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2015
    Messages:
    119
    Ratings:
    +44 / 15 / -5
    I think fixing the swap projectile would be best buff for puck. Currently, aiming that is wonky.

    As for lina, I'm thinking increasing slide during pull whilst decreasing end momentum OR increasing minimum speed with duration used OR something along those lines, maybe.

    Hero hulls getting stuck in each other is getting worse with each day I reckon. Especially with lina players.
     
  4. Jomon New Member Club WeLoveBalls

    Country:
    Germany
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Messages:
    7
    Ratings:
    +1 / 1 / -0
    I didnt try es a lot in the new version, but why is ogre slightly too strong and es is not? You can do exactly the same but with height or without height. I dont think ogre is to strong, its all about defense
     
  5. Biz Top 5 Banjoballer Club Cx

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2015
    Messages:
    121
    Ratings:
    +47 / 26 / -4
    Puck's projectile should be more precise and slightly faster. I believe a smaller projectile would accomplish both of these things (a smaller projectile model would seem faster [harder to react to?]), traveling the same distance at the same speed while being more precise. I don't think you can do much more with the swap ability without making it super op at the top level.. a skill-shot ability will always be inherently unreliable.

    Lina's pull needs to start out slow; I mean really slow (in banjo you could resist/walk away from) the pull for almost the first second of the duration. Only about the last 1/3 of the duration should be at the current speed (paying the price of a longer cool-down for a stronger pull if you can't utilize adequate skill during the earlier portion). Adding the acceleration time will make it easier to predict the pull-path. This makes the ability require a functioning mouse to utilize, which I'll explain:
    While defending you will have to position properly and move/turn your hero during your pull to compensate for the possessor (you know this is a thing right, the current pull is just so fast you can't even see it!) to use it effectively. It will still retain its unique potential to press the attack and use pull to recover should the attack go awry... but against decent ball-handlers you won't simply get free steals every Q, and you will be punished if you don't position/rotate/run the field (play the game) properly; as it stands with all other heroes.

    Using the pull for mobility/offensively will normally utilize the functionality I described earlier, where-in you will resist the beginning portion of your pull after kicking the ball forwards to gain momentum; effectively sling-shotting your hero utilizing the ball. This will require actual clicking (I know right?) and some cool-down cost instead of being totally free at maximum speed + minimum cool-down like right now.

    I think ES is actually better... but it's bugged right now so it's hard to tell. I'd like to go in-depth on comparing the two in tl;dr form:

    Offense (Primary):
    Shooting -
    ES's slam ability has a built-in delay (where you lift your rod and smash people) making it fundamentally harder to replicate the same super-shots Ogre can produce. It also works on a longer cool-down which is a huge deal when we're talking about your offense having to wait for your ability to have consistent results. However, Ogre's super-shots remain grounded and thus require an open lane. This would be hard to come by against a dedicated defender, which you'd find in 99% of competitive games, reducing his impact tremendously.

    Off The Ball -
    ES has the unique quality of upward force in his slam while Ogre only has directional force. While this also gives some extra quality to the super-shots you can pull off with ES, it more importantly makes ES much more versatile from an off-the-ball stand-point. You'll often see ES launching teammates into the air from virtually anywhere on the field to create a shot opportunity.
    ES's slam is also radial, allowing him to disrupt entire defenses, or clear the crease (including arrant goalies applying pressure) allowing him to create more scoring opportunities than an Ogre that can only move one or maybe two people if they stack up.
    Ogre can occasionally boost team-mates forward with his directional slam forces, though lacking the arial benefits this would serve only to reposition heroes rather than creating shot opportunities. This functionality would also mean you are positioned behind your offense... the role you're supposed to be playing. :embarassed:

    Defense (Secondary/Optional):
    ES generally has to get right into the fray (on the crease) most of the time and slam away defenders or the goalie to open the lane for passes & shots. This makes his average field rotations slightly longer than an Ogre, who is essentially super-shooting every time. Also, ES's ability isn't as precise as an Ogre (also cool-down) making it too risky to use defensively. So I feel ES is conceding defensive attributes entirely to Ogre.
    Unfortunately for Ogre, it in itself doesn't function adequately for a primary defensive role, as it has no ability to force turnovers/gain possession. Giving these advantageous attributes little to no value.​

    Goalie? I thought we were talking about offensive heroes!:
    ES's upward slam force makes his slams effective against arial shots (considered the strongest shots by many) allowing him to be an effective goalie choice against Slark/Techies/ES on the opposing team.​

    Conclusion:
    If ES wasn't bugged I would certainly choose him over Ogre for the primary offensive position due to his versatility. If you had to choose a defender I guess you'd side with Ogre, but if you chose either of these two as a primary defender (competitively) then you'd basically be labeled a troll (trust me, I know :roflmao:). ES could also be a niche counter-pick as goalie, but that's another discussion.​

    I colored the hero names cause I thought it might be easier to follow my train of thought okay shutup.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Dayne Awful Player, Worse Developer Staff Member Banjoballer Wiki Editor Club Cx

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2015
    Messages:
    410
    Ratings:
    +170 / 32 / -21
    I was gonna ask wtf why is Ogre blue, but then I remembered Ogre Magi is blue.

    @K1ngfisher tbh I'm sitting on a fix for the collisions because I got swamped with other work in the meantime.
     

Share This Page